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	<title>Christianity &#8211; White Minaret</title>
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	<description>The Messenger Of Allah ﷺ said: “Whoever dies without an Imam will die a death of Jahiliyyah”  (Musnad Ahmad)</description>
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	<title>Christianity &#8211; White Minaret</title>
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		<title>Debunking the Islamic Dilemma</title>
		<link>https://whiteminaret.org/christianity/debunking-the-islamic-dilemma/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=debunking-the-islamic-dilemma</link>
		
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[True Islam Discord]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2026 19:50:11 +0000</pubDate>
				<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christians]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Islam]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Islamic Dilemma]]></category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://whiteminaret.org/?p=11163</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Introduction The Islamic Dilemma is a recently popularised argument used by Christian apologists such as David Wood, Sam Shamoun and GodLogic. The argument claims that the Quran affirms the authenticity of the Torah and Bible. If the Torah and Bible are authentic, then the Quran is wrong for contradicting them. . . . <a class="readmore-link" href="https://whiteminaret.org/christianity/debunking-the-islamic-dilemma/">Read more</a>]]></description>
										<content:encoded><![CDATA[
<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Introduction</h2>



<p>The Islamic Dilemma is a recently popularised argument used by Christian apologists such as David Wood, Sam Shamoun and GodLogic. The argument claims that the Quran affirms the authenticity of the Torah and Bible. If the Torah and Bible are authentic, then the Quran is wrong for contradicting them. If they are corrupted, then the Quran is still wrong because it affirms them. Either way, Islam is supposedly disproven, hence the name “Islamic Dilemma.” This article focuses on debunking this argument, showing it relies on misinterpretations of Quranic verses</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Reassessing the “Islamic Dilemma” Verses</h2>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Did Allah Tell Muhammad (SAW) to Consult the Bible? (10:94)</h3>



<p>It is claimed that this verse instructs Prophet Muhammad (SAW), when in doubt about his revelations, to consult Jews and Christians to whom the prior scriptures were revealed, implying those scriptures are trustworthy.</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p class="has-text-align-right"><em>فَإِن كُنتَ فِي شَكّٖ مِّمَّآ أَنزَلۡنَآ إِلَيۡكَ فَسۡـَٔلِ ٱلَّذِينَ يَقۡرَءُونَ ٱلۡكِتَٰبَ مِن قَبۡلِكَ ۚ لَقَدۡ جَآءَكَ ٱلۡحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّكَ فَلَا تَكُونَنَّ مِنَ ٱلۡمُمۡتَرِينَ ٩٥</em></p>



<p><br><strong>Translation</strong>: <em>And if thou art in doubt concerning that which We have sent down to thee, ask those who have been reading the Book before thee. Indeed the truth has come to thee from thy Lord; be not, therefore, of those who doubt.</em></p>
<cite><a href="https://readquran.app/10:95" target="_blank" rel="noopener">[Quran 10:94]</a></cite></blockquote>



<p>However, this verse does not mention Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and does not suggest that he was the one in doubt, because one who receives revelation cannot experience doubt. The Quran itself cannot be described as something that produces doubt. The Qur’an elsewhere states about the Prophet Muhammad (SAW):</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p class="has-text-align-right"><em>قُلۡ هَٰذِهِۦ سَبِيلِيٓ أَدۡعُوٓاْ إِلَى ٱللَّهِ ۚ عَلَىٰ بَصِيرَةٍ أَنَا۠ وَمَنِ ٱتَّبَعَنِي ۖ وَسُبۡحَٰنَ ٱللَّهِ وَمَآ أَنَا۠ مِنَ ٱلۡمُشۡرِكِينَ</em></p>



<p><br><strong>Translation:</strong> <em>Say, ‘This is my way: I call unto Allah on sure knowledge, I and those who follow me. And Holy is Allah; and I am not of those who associate gods with God.’</em></p>
<cite><a href="https://readquran.app/12:109" target="_blank" rel="noopener">[Quran: 12:108]</a></cite></blockquote>



<p>That is to say, Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and his followers did not accept this religion based on conjecture; rather, through direct observation and revelation they came to recognize the truth. It is clear that those who accept something through such knowledge cannot experience doubt or uncertainty about it. </p>



<p>What this actually refers to is the people who argue and dispute. The verse repeats the objections of the disbelievers, who claimed that the Quran’s words caused doubt in their minds. Allah responds by saying that if they think this, they should ask those people who, before them, have read the Quran and benefited from it. They will see that the Quran does not create doubt, but brings clarity and certainty to those who understand it.</p>



<p>By saying, &#8220;ask those who have been reading the book before thee&#8221;, the verse also makes it clear that person needs a teacher, because understanding spiritual knowledge requires a certain level of spirituality. Therefore, when studying a revealed book, one should not decide on matters about which they have doubts without consulting the experts, as the understanding of a revealed book is granted according to spirituality.</p>



<h4 class="wp-block-heading">Surah Yunus (10:94) in Light of Hazrat Mirza Bashir-ud-Din Mahmud Ahmad’s Tafseer-e-Kabeer</h4>



<p>All these arguments that Christians raise were already addressed over 80 years ago in Hazrat Mirza Bashir-ud-Din Mahmud Ahmad’s <em><a href="https://new.alislam.org/library/volumes/tafaseer-urdu-tafseer-e-kabeer?booklang=ur" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Tafseer-e-Kabeer</a></em>, published in 1940. This passage from <em>Tafseer-e-Kabeer</em> refutes the objections raised by Christians regarding this verse:</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p><em>The doubters cannot be the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). The words “So if you are in doubt…” (فَإِنْ كُنْتَ فِي شَكٍّ) cannot refer to the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), because the one upon whom revelation is sent cannot have doubt. Therefore, what is meant by this is the people who differ and dispute. The Holy Qur’an cannot be something that produces doubt. Nor does this verse mean that the Qur’an creates doubt. Rather, in this place the words of the disbelievers’ objection have been repeated. They used to say that the expressions of the Holy Qur’an create doubts in our minds. Allah the Almighty repeats their own words and says: O objector, if according to you this speech produces doubts, then ask those people who, before you, have read the Holy Qur’an and have benefited from it—ask them what kind of illumination and light this Book has granted to their hearts. By questioning them, you will come to know that this speech is not something that creates doubt, but rather something that creates certainty. <br></em><br><em>For teaching, it is necessary not only to have a book, but also to have a human teacher. From this verse, it becomes clearly evident that a book alone is not sufficient. A person is also in need of a teacher, because for the unveiling of spiritual knowledge, a certain level of spirituality is also required. Therefore, when a person studies a revealed book, he should not make any decision regarding matters about which he has doubts without asking the experts of that book. Because if the book is revealed, then surely its understanding will be granted in accordance with spirituality.<br></em><br><em>Some people mistakenly think that the ones who are in doubt are the Noble Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and his companions, and that those whom he is commanded to ask are the Jews and the Christians. But as has already been proven earlier, the Noble Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) cannot be meant by this, nor can his companions. Because regarding them, the Holy Qur’an says elsewhere:</em></p>



<p><br><em>“Say: This is my way: I call to Allah with clear insight—I and those who follow me.” (Yusuf 12:109)</em></p>



<p><br><em>Meaning: Say that I and my followers do not accept this religion merely on the basis of conjecture; rather, through direct observation we have come to know the truthfulness of the Holy Qur’an. And it is obvious that those who accept something through observation cannot fall into doubt and uncertainty regarding it. The next verse also shows that in this place the Noble Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) cannot be the one being addressed</em></p>
<cite><a href="https://whiteminaret.org/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/IslamicDilemma-–-Hazrat-Mirza-Bashir-ud-Din-Mahmud-Ahmad-Tafseer-e-Kabeer.png">[Tafseer-e-Kabeer. vol 4, pg. 178-179]</a></cite></blockquote>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Conclusion</h2>



<p>The Islamic Dilemma relies on a false understanding of numerous ayahs. One key verse cited is 10:94, but it actually addresses disbelievers who doubt the Quran, instructing them to consult those who have understood and benefited from the Quran.</p>
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			</item>
		<item>
		<title>Eli Eli Lama Sabaqtani &#124; Prayer of Jesus Christ on the Cross during crucifixion</title>
		<link>https://whiteminaret.org/christianity/prayer-of-eli-eli-lama-sabaqtani/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=prayer-of-eli-eli-lama-sabaqtani</link>
		
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[True Islam Discord]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jul 2024 20:15:26 +0000</pubDate>
				<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Death of Jesus]]></category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://whiteminaret.org/?p=7850</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A refutation of Christians who say that when Jesus (as) spoke the words Eli Eli Lama Sabaqtani because those words point to the world being saved through the crucifixion of Jesus according to the Psalm of David (as). Introduction What happened to Jesus (as)? According to the Ahmadiyya Muslim belief . . . <a class="readmore-link" href="https://whiteminaret.org/christianity/prayer-of-eli-eli-lama-sabaqtani/">Read more</a>]]></description>
										<content:encoded><![CDATA[
<p>A refutation of Christians who say that when Jesus (as) spoke the words Eli Eli Lama Sabaqtani because those words point to the world being saved through the crucifixion of Jesus according to the Psalm of David (as).</p>



<h1 class="wp-block-heading">Introduction</h1>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">What happened to Jesus (as)?</h2>



<p>According to the Ahmadiyya Muslim belief based on the Holy Quran &amp; Sahih Ahadith, Jesus (as) was indeed put on the cross but survived. To the Romans and Jews who had done the act of crucifixion, it seemed like Jesus (as) had died as one crucified, but this was their mistake in judgement, Jesus (as) only appeared as one crucified and survived the whole ordeal and lived a long life afterwards.</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p>وَّقَوۡلِہِمۡ&nbsp;اِنَّا&nbsp;قَتَلۡنَا&nbsp;الۡمَسِیۡحَ&nbsp;عِیۡسَی&nbsp;ابۡنَ&nbsp;مَرۡیَمَ&nbsp;رَسُوۡلَ&nbsp;اللّٰہِ&nbsp;ۚ&nbsp;وَمَا&nbsp;قَتَلُوۡہُ&nbsp;وَمَا&nbsp;صَلَبُوۡہُ&nbsp;وَلٰکِنۡ&nbsp;شُبِّہَ&nbsp;لَہُمۡ&nbsp;ؕ&nbsp;وَاِنَّ&nbsp;الَّذِیۡنَ&nbsp;اخۡتَلَفُوۡا&nbsp;فِیۡہِ&nbsp;لَفِیۡ&nbsp;شَکٍّ&nbsp;مِّنۡہُ&nbsp;ؕ&nbsp;مَا&nbsp;لَہُمۡ&nbsp;بِہٖ&nbsp;مِنۡ&nbsp;عِلۡمٍ&nbsp;اِلَّا&nbsp;اتِّبَاعَ&nbsp;الظَّنِّ&nbsp;ۚ&nbsp;وَمَا&nbsp;قَتَلُوۡہُ&nbsp;یَقِیۡنًۢا</p>



<p>And their saying, ‘We did kill the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah;’ whereas they slew him not, nor crucified him, <strong>but he was made to appear to them like</strong> <em>one crucified</em>; and those who differ therein are certainly in a state of doubt about it; they have no definite knowledge thereof, but only follow a conjecture; and they did not convert this conjecture into a certainty;</p>
<cite>[Holy Quran 4:158]</cite></blockquote>



<p>The words وَلٰکِنۡ&nbsp;شُبِّہَ&nbsp;لَہُمۡ literally mean &#8220;it was made to appear to them so&#8221;, non-Ahmadi Muslims to make this Quranic verse fit into the narrative of the popular tafasir, say that another was made to appear like one crucified on the cross. They say this was Judas Iscariot, and Jesus (as) was never taken near the cross, and then he (as) was taken up to heaven from another location.</p>



<p>This is wholly based on popular tafasir and the substitution theory. In reality, the verse mentions no other person, only that Jesus (as) HIMSELF was made to &#8220;appear to them so&#8221; i.e. as one crucified. The words وَلٰکِنۡ&nbsp;شُبِّہَ&nbsp;لَہُمۡ also mean &#8220;the matter became confused to them&#8221;, according to the Bible the Jews themselves were unsure if Jesus (as) had really died on the cross (Matt. 27:&#x200d;62-66).</p>



<p>Then the Sahih Ahadith establish Jesus (as) lived to <a href="https://whiteminaret.org/doj/death-age-120/" data-type="link" data-id="https://whiteminaret.org/doj/death-age-120/">120 years</a> (article),</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p class="has-text-align-right"><strong>وَأَخْبَرَنِي أَنَّهُ أَخْبَرَهُ أَنَّهُ لَمْ يَكُنْ نَبِيٌّ إِلَّا عَاشَ نِصْفَ عُمَرَ الَّذِي قَبْلَهُ، وَأَنَّهُ أَخْبَرَنِي أَنَّ <span style="text-decoration: underline;">عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ عَاشَ عِشْرِينَ وَماِئةَ سَنَةٍ</span> وَلَا أُرَانِي إِلَّا ذَاهِبًا عَلَى رَأْسِ السِّتِّينَ</strong></p>



<p>The Messenger of Allah (saw) said: And he (Gabriel) told me that every successive prophet has lived to half the age of his predecessor. <strong>And verily he informed me Jesus, son of Mary, lived to 120 years.</strong> Therefore, I perceive that I may reach the age of 60.</p>
<cite>[Al Mu&#8217;jam Al Kabir Tabarani, 1031, 22/417]</cite></blockquote>



<p>This rendering of the hadith which explicitly mention Jesus (as) living to 120 years, has been graded Sahih by Ibn Hajar al Asqalani, al-Qastallani, Imam al-Sakhawi, Al-Ajoulni, Nawab Siddiq Hasan Khan, Imam Muhammad ibn Yusuf al-Shami, and al-Bayhaqi. </p>



<p>Other renderings of this hadith only say the part لَمْ يَكُنْ نَبِيٌّ إِلَّا عَاشَ نِصْفَ عُمَرَ الَّذِي قَبْلَهُ (there was no prophet except he lived to have the age of the one preceding him), which are also graded Sahih, from which one can easily deduce Jesus (as) lived to 120-125 years, as the Prophet (saw) lived to 60. Overall, this hadith has multiple renderings and authentic chains, it cannot simply be ignored.</p>



<p>Where did Jesus (as) live in these 120 years? According to the Quran and Sahih Ahadith Jesus (as) <a href="https://whiteminaret.org/doj/isa-as-travelling-persecution/">migrated from the land of Palestine</a> (article).</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p class="has-text-align-right">قال رسول الله ﷺ أحب شيء إلى الله الغرباء قيل ومن الغرباء قال الفرارون بدينهم يبعثهم الله عز وجل يوم القيامة مع عيسى ابن مريم عليه السلام</p>



<p>The Messenger of Allah (saw) said: “Dearest to Allah are the strangers (Ghurabah) who flee (their homelands) with their faith. On the Day of Judgment Allah will raise them with Isa ibn Maryam (AS).&#8221;</p>
<cite>[<a href="https://whiteminaret.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/ImamAhmadAlZuhdGhuarbahHadith-1-scaled.jpg" data-type="URL" data-id="https://whiteminaret.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/ImamAhmadAlZuhdGhuarbahHadith-1-scaled.jpg" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Al-Zuhd, p. 123, #809</a>, <a href="https://archive.org/details/980000_201808/%D9%83%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%A8_%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%81%D8%AA%D9%86_%D9%84%D9%86%D8%B9%D9%8A%D9%86_%D8%A8%D9%86_%D8%AD%D9%85%D8%A7%D8%AF_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AC%D8%B2%D8%A1_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A3%D9%88%D9%84/page/n111/mode/2up" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Kitabul Fitn (Hadith #167</a>)]</cite></blockquote>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p class="has-text-align-right">وَجَعَلۡنَا ابۡنَ مَرۡیَمَ وَاُمَّہٗۤ اٰیَۃً وَّاٰوَیۡنٰہُمَاۤ اِلٰی رَبۡوَۃٍ ذَاتِ قَرَارٍ وَّمَعِیۡنٍ</p>



<p>And We made the son of Mary and his mother a Sign, and We rescued them and helped them reach an elevated land, a restful place with springs of running water.</p>
<cite>[<a href="https://www.alislam.org/quran/app/23:51" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Holy Quran 23:51</a>]</cite></blockquote>



<p>Where they eventually reached is another matter, as that&#8217;s based on historical evidence and theory. Ahmadi Muslims say this place is Kashmir, and this is based on historical evidence and interpretation. However, we are establishing here that we do know with certainty that Isa (as) survived, migrated to an elevated restful land, and lived a long life according to <strong>authentic religious authority</strong>, where that place is not what we are currently concerned with.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Christian Narrative</h2>



<p>Christians wish to prove Jesus (as) openly wanted to sacrifice himself on the cross for the world. To refute this Ahmadi Muslims mention the fact that Jesus (as) &#8211; on the cross &#8211; yelled out, &#8220;Eli, Eli, Lama Sabaqtani?&#8221; (My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?). This is a clear indication that Jesus (as) did not want to be put on the cross or die there, and refutes the Christian narrative.</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p><sup>46&nbsp;</sup>And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is to say, “My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?”</p>
<cite><a href="https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2027&amp;version=KJ21" target="_blank" rel="noopener">[Matthew 27:46]</a></cite></blockquote>



<p>It seems there are two answers from Christians as to why Jesus (as) said this</p>



<ol class="wp-block-list">
<li>In that moment Jesus (as) was made to bear the sins of the whole world, and thus felt separation from God, urging him to cry out &#8220;Eli, Eli, Lama Sabaqtani?&#8221; &#8211; he felt separation from the Father</li>



<li>In that moment Jesus (as) was directly quoting Psalm 22, which contains visible prophecies about the event of the crucifixion, and was turning people&#8217;s attention to that Psalm to prove his truth</li>
</ol>



<p>For both these answers, the fact that Jesus (as) was quoting the Psalm is usually not disputed. </p>



<p>The prophecies about Jesus (as) in the Pslam 22 according to Christians are bolded:</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p>My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?<br>Why are you so far from saving me,<br>so far from my cries of anguish?<br>My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,<br>by night, but I find no rest.</p>



<p>Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;<br>you are the one Israel praises.<br>In you our ancestors put their trust;<br>they trusted and you delivered them.<br>To you they cried out and were saved;<br>in you they trusted and were not put to shame.</p>



<p>But I am a worm and not a man,<br><strong>scorned by everyone, despised by the people.<br>All who see me mock me;<br>they hurl insults, shaking their heads.</strong><br><strong>“He trusts in the Lord,” they say,<br>“let the Lord rescue him.<br>Let him deliver him,<br>since he delights in him.”</strong></p>



<p>Yet you brought me out of the womb;<br>you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.<br>From birth I was cast on you;<br>from my mother’s womb you have been my God.</p>



<p>Do not be far from me,<br>for trouble is near<br>and there is no one to help.</p>



<p>Many bulls surround me;<br>strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.<br>Roaring lions that tear their prey<br>open their mouths wide against me.<br>I am poured out like water,<br>and all my bones are out of joint.<br>My heart has turned to wax;<br>it has melted within me.<br>My mouth is dried up like a potsherd,<br>and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;<br>you lay me in the dust of death.</p>



<p><strong>Dogs surround me,<br>a pack of villains encircles me;<br>they pierce my hands and my feet.<br>All my bones are on display;<br>people stare and gloat over me.<br>They divide my clothes among them<br>and cast lots for my garment.</strong></p>



<p>But you, Lord, do not be far from me.<br>You are my strength; come quickly to help me.<br>Deliver me from the sword,<br>my precious life from the power of the dogs.<br>Rescue me from the mouth of the lions;<br>save me from the horns of the wild oxen.</p>



<p>I will declare your name to my people;<br>in the assembly I will praise you.<br>You who fear the Lord, praise him!<br>All you descendants of Jacob, honor him!<br>Revere him, all you descendants of Israel!<br><strong>For he has not despised or scorned<br>the suffering of the afflicted one;<br>he has not hidden his face from him</strong><br>but has listened to his cry for help.</p>



<p>From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly;<br>before those who fear you I will fulfill my vows.<br>The poor will eat and be satisfied;<br>those who seek the Lord will praise him—<br>may your hearts live forever!</p>



<p><strong>All the ends of the earth<br>will remember and turn to the Lord,<br>and all the families of the nations<br>will bow down before him,</strong><br>for dominion belongs to the Lord<br>and he rules over the nations.</p>



<p>All the rich of the earth will feast and worship;<br>all who go down to the dust will kneel before him—<br>those who cannot keep themselves alive.<br>Posterity will serve him;<br>future generations will be told about the Lord.<br>They will proclaim his righteousness,<br>declaring to a people yet unborn:<br>He has done it!</p>
<cite><a href="https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%2022&amp;version=KJ21" target="_blank" rel="noopener">[Psalm 22]</a></cite></blockquote>



<p>Basically, according to the Christians, the Psalm outlines Jesus (as) being despised, mocked and tortured, eventually being crucified according to the verse &#8220;All my bones are on display; people stare and gloat over me.&#8221; but then Jesus triumphs over his enemies with his resurrection.</p>



<h1 class="wp-block-heading">Refutation</h1>



<p>To refute both of these answers from Christians, we only need to refute the second answer, which is that Jesus (as) was turning the world&#8217;s attention the Psalm 22. Christians quote the parts that support them in the Psalm, yet ignore the vast majority of it! Let us assume Jesus (as) was quoting the Psalm 22, this only strengthens the Ahmadiyya view.</p>



<p>Psalm 22 is not about being resurrected, it is about <strong>life being saved</strong> from the enemies. And the victory of the Prophet over his foes who inflict suffering upon him. Let us review some of the Psalm:</p>



<p>The Psalm begins with anguish:</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p>My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?<br>Why are you so far from saving me,<br>so far from my cries of anguish?</p>
</blockquote>



<p>then it mentions that God has always listened to the praying person in the past:</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p>In you our ancestors put their trust;<br>they trusted and you delivered them.<br>To you they cried out and were saved;<br>in you they trusted and were not put to shame.</p>
</blockquote>



<p>then it mentions the enemies who mock the one who puts their trust in God:</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p>But I am a worm and not a man,<br>scorned by everyone, despised by the people.<br>All who see me mock me;<br>they hurl insults, shaking their heads.<br>“He trusts in the Lord,” they say,<br>“let the Lord rescue him.<br>Let him deliver him,<br>since he delights in him.”</p>
</blockquote>



<p>Then the Psalm outlines the fact that the enemies have completely surrounded the person:</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p>Do not be far from me,<br>for trouble is near<br>and there is no one to help.</p>



<p>Many bulls surround me;<br>strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.<br>Roaring lions that tear their prey<br>open their mouths wide against me.</p>
</blockquote>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p>Dogs surround me,<br>a pack of villains encircles me;<br>they pierce my hands and my feet.<br>All my bones are on display;<br>people stare and gloat over me.<br>They divide my clothes among them<br>and cast lots for my garment.</p>
</blockquote>



<p>Then the Psalm turns into a heartfelt prayer to be <strong>saved</strong> from the enemies, for the <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">life</span> of the person being delivered from them!</strong></p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p>But you, Lord, do not be far from me.<br>You are my strength; come quickly to help me.<br><strong>Deliver me from</strong> <strong>the sword</strong>,<br>my <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">precious life</span></strong> from the power of the dogs.<br><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Rescue me</span></strong> from the mouth of the lions;<br><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">save me</span></strong> from the horns of the wild oxen.</p>
</blockquote>



<p>Why is it the Christians ignore this literal prayer of the life of the person being saved from the enemy? If Jesus (as) was indeed quoting this Psalm, then the only possible conclusion is that he (as) wished for his life to be saved from the surrounding enemies.</p>



<p>The Psalm then goes unto the fact that God never leaves the praying person, He always answers and comes to the aid of the praying one:</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p>Revere him, all you descendants of Israel!<br><strong>For he has not despised or scorned<br>the suffering of the afflicted one;<br>he has not hidden his face from him</strong><br>but has listened to his cry for help.</p>
</blockquote>



<p>According to Christians, the so-called &#8220;triumph&#8221; of Jesus being prophesied in this Psalm is him carrying the sins of the world rather than being resurrected, however, the Psalm is praying for the delivery of the person from death at the hands of the enemy<strong> and declares that God will listen to this prayer. The triumph at the end of this chapter is celebrating that God will listen to this prayer of being saved. </strong></p>



<p>So the Christians&#8217;s answer to &#8220;Eli, Eli, lama Sabaqtani&#8221; in fact supports Ahmadi Muslims further, as Christians are not unbiasedly looking at the words of the Psalm.</p>



<h1 class="wp-block-heading">Conclusion</h1>



<p>There are two conclusions now, which support Ahmadi Muslims and Islam:</p>



<ol class="wp-block-list">
<li>Jesus (as) was saying these words, <strong>&#8220;Eli, Eli, lama sabaqtani?&#8221; (My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?)</strong> to show his sadness at the event of the crucifixion unrelated to the words of Psalm 22, that he wished not to be crucified.</li>



<li>Jesus (as) was saying these words <strong>&#8220;Eli, Eli, lama sabaqtani?&#8221; (My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?)</strong> to quote Psalm 22, and in this case, these words were a prayer to God to save Jesus (as) life &#8211; that he does not die on the cross, and is delivered from death on the cross.</li>
</ol>



<p>From these Jesus (as) quoting the Psalm seem like the likely conclusion, as Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) has written:</p>
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		<title>Valley of Bakkah in the Bible</title>
		<link>https://whiteminaret.org/christianity/valley-of-bakkah-in-the-bible/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=valley-of-bakkah-in-the-bible</link>
		
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[True Islam Discord]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jul 2024 01:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
				<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://whiteminaret.org/?p=7834</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A refutation of a weak commentary by non-Muslims regarding a passage of the Bible which clearly mentions Valley of Bakkah (where the Kaaba is) Introduction In the Psalm of David (as), in the Bible, there is a passage which mentioned a specific &#8220;Valley of Baca&#8221;, Muslims believe that this valley . . . <a class="readmore-link" href="https://whiteminaret.org/christianity/valley-of-bakkah-in-the-bible/">Read more</a>]]></description>
										<content:encoded><![CDATA[
<p>A refutation of a weak commentary by non-Muslims regarding a passage of the Bible which clearly mentions Valley of Bakkah (where the Kaaba is)</p>



<h1 class="wp-block-heading">Introduction</h1>



<p>In the Psalm of David (as), in the Bible, there is a passage which mentioned a specific &#8220;Valley of Baca&#8221;, Muslims believe that this valley is the Valley of Bakkah i.e Makkah &#8211; the central site of Islam. Christians and Jews deny this application. </p>



<p>About the Islamic Valley of Bakkah its written in the Holy Quran:</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p>Surely, the first House founded for mankind is that&nbsp;<mark>at Becca</mark>, abounding in blessings and a guidance for all peoples.</p>
<cite>[Holy Quran 3:97]</cite></blockquote>



<p>In Psalm 84 its written:</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p>For the director of music. According to&nbsp;<em>gittith.</em>&nbsp;Of the Sons of Korah. A psalm.</p>



<p><sup>1&nbsp;</sup>How lovely is your dwelling place,<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Lord&nbsp;Almighty!<br><sup>2&nbsp;</sup>My soul yearns,&nbsp;even faints,<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;for the courts of the&nbsp;Lord;<br>my heart and my flesh cry out<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;for the living God.<br><sup>3&nbsp;</sup>Even the sparrow has found a home,<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;and the swallow a nest for herself,<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;where she may have her young—<br>a place near your altar,<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Lord&nbsp;Almighty,&nbsp;my King&nbsp;and my God.<br><sup>4&nbsp;</sup>Blessed are those who dwell in your house;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;they are ever praising you.</p>



<p><sup>5&nbsp;</sup>Blessed are those whose strength&nbsp;is in you,<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;whose hearts are set on pilgrimage.<br><sup>6&nbsp;</sup>As they pass through the <strong>Valley of Baka,</strong><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;they make it a place of springs;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the autumn&nbsp;rains also cover it with pools.<br><sup>7&nbsp;</sup>They go from strength to strength,<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;till each appears&nbsp;before God in Zion.</p>



<p><sup>8&nbsp;</sup>Hear my prayer,&nbsp;Lord&nbsp;God Almighty;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;listen to me, God of Jacob.<br><sup>9&nbsp;</sup>Look on our shield,&nbsp;O God;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;look with favor on your anointed one.</p>



<p><sup>10&nbsp;</sup>Better is one day in your courts<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;than a thousand elsewhere;<br>I would rather be a doorkeeper&nbsp;in the house of my God<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;than dwell in the tents of the wicked.<br><sup>11&nbsp;</sup>For the&nbsp;Lord&nbsp;God is a sun&nbsp;and shield;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the&nbsp;Lord&nbsp;bestows favor and honor;<br>no good thing does he withhold<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;from those whose walk is blameless.</p>



<p><sup>12&nbsp;</sup>Lord&nbsp;Almighty,<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;blessed&nbsp;is the one who trusts in you.</p>
<cite><a href="https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%2084&amp;version=NIV" target="_blank" rel="noopener">[Psalm 84]</a></cite></blockquote>



<p>Christians and Jews say that &#8220;Valley of Baka&#8221; here is not the well-known site of Muslims &#8220;<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakkah" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Valley of Bakkah</a>&#8221; instead they say since &#8220;Baka&#8221; in Hebrew means &#8220;weeping&#8221; this means, &#8220;valley of weeping&#8221;, and is a metaphorical passage about one&#8217;s spiritual journey. This article refutes this strange and weak view, as it seems Jews and Christians have concocted this view to oppose the existence of the ancient site of the Kaaba which the Muslims revere. They do not want the Bible to support Muslims in any way.</p>



<h1 class="wp-block-heading">Refutation</h1>



<p>Psalm 84, doesn&#8217;t just have a random &#8220;valley of Baka&#8221; mentioned, that Muslims have simply taken to mean their Islamic site. The Psalm mentions a few key points regarding the literal characteristics of this Baka Valley:</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Baka Valley related to an altar/House of God</h2>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p><sup>4&nbsp;</sup>Blessed are those who dwell in <strong>your house</strong>;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;they are ever praising you.</p>
</blockquote>



<p>This is a <strong>House of God related to the Bible&#8217;s Baka Valley</strong>, which has dwellers always praising God.</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p><sup>3&nbsp;</sup>Even the sparrow has found a home,<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;and the swallow a nest for herself,<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;where she may have her young—<br>a place near your <strong>altar</strong>,<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Lord&nbsp;Almighty,&nbsp;my King&nbsp;and my God.</p>
</blockquote>



<p>This Baka Valley is related to a <strong>religious altar</strong> in which even even animals find refuge</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p><sup>1&nbsp;</sup>How lovely is your <strong>dwelling place</strong>,<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Lord&nbsp;Almighty!</p>
</blockquote>



<p>Baka Valley is related to <strong>God&#8217;s dwelling plac</strong>e i.e House.</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p><sup>10&nbsp;</sup>Better is one day in your courts<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;than a thousand elsewhere;<br>I would rather be a doorkeeper&nbsp;in the <strong>house of my God</strong><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;than dwell in the tents of the wicked.</p>
</blockquote>



<p>House of God, which has some relation to Baka Valley of Bible, possess a door, and is extremely blessed.</p>



<p>Christians have said that its possible this means The Valley of <a href="https://www.gotquestions.org/valley-of-Baca.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Rephaim</a> near Jerusalem. Look how they are chasing after loose and obscure possibilities when a famous &#8220;Valley of Bakkah&#8221; already exists. This weak possibility is already falling apart, but the next points make it irrefutable.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Baka Valley related to pilgrimage</h2>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p><sup>5&nbsp;</sup>Blessed are those whose strength&nbsp;is in you,<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;whose hearts are set on <strong>pilgrimage.</strong></p>



<p>As they pass through the <strong>Valley of Baka,</strong></p>
</blockquote>



<p>Baka Valley has relation to <strong>pilgrimage</strong>, and people&#8217;s hearts are set on pilgrimage as they pass through Baka Valley of the Bible.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Baka Valley related to springs</h2>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;they make it a place of <strong>springs</strong>;</p>
</blockquote>



<p>This Baka Valley of the Bible has some relation to springs.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Baka Valley litearlly pools in autumn season</h2>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the autumn&nbsp;rains also cover it with pools.</p>
</blockquote>



<p>Baka Valley is clearly said to have a phenomena in which pools form in the Fall season (close to November)</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Baka Valley&#8217;s House of God has animal refuge</h2>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p><sup>3&nbsp;</sup>Even the sparrow has found a home,<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;and the swallow a nest for herself,<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;where she may have her young—<br>a place near your <strong>altar</strong>,<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Lord&nbsp;Almighty,&nbsp;my King&nbsp;and my God.</p>
</blockquote>



<p>Near this sacred religious alter thats somehow related to the Baka Valley, animals and birds find refuge. Specifically the sparrow and swallow.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Doorkeeper of Baka Valley House of God</h2>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p><sup>10&nbsp;</sup>Better is one day in your courts<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;than a thousand elsewhere;<br>I would rather be a doorkeeper&nbsp;in the house of my God<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;than dwell in the tents of the wicked.</p>
</blockquote>



<p>The House of God mentioned in the chapter, that somehow is related to Baka Valley of Bible, has a doorkeeper.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">&#8220;Strength to Strength&#8221; in Baka Valley</h2>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p><sup>7&nbsp;</sup>They go from strength to strength,<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;till each appears&nbsp;before God in Zion.</p>
</blockquote>



<p>Pilgrims go &#8220;strength to strength&#8221; before leaving Baka Valley to go to Zion (Jerusalem).</p>



<h1 class="wp-block-heading">Characteristics of Islamic Bakkah</h1>



<p>The Kaaba, the sacrad altar of Islam, is located in the Baitullah (House of God) in the Valley of Bakkah, Arabia. Bakkah&#8217;s main 2 characteristsics are</p>



<ol class="wp-block-list">
<li>It possesses the House of God (Baitullah) i.e Kaaba for all mankind</li>



<li>Its the place of pilgrimage (Umrah/Hajj) for all mankind</li>
</ol>



<p>These are <strong>literally its 2 main characteristics.</strong></p>



<p>Additonally some famous geographic points about the Valley of Bakkah are:</p>



<ol class="wp-block-list">
<li>It has the famous spring of Zamzam used to procure blessed water throughout the Sacred Area (al Masjid al Haram)</li>



<li>There is famous flooding in the rainy season i.e. Autumn, from November to February</li>
</ol>



<p>Furthermore, here are some religious points in the Islamic House of God located in the Valley of Bakkah, which was known even before Islam:</p>



<ol class="wp-block-list">
<li>Hunting and killing any non-harmful animal is prohibited, for example birds and equids</li>



<li>Pilgrims during the pilgrimage have to go multiple sites, they must go &#8220;strength to strength&#8221;</li>



<li>There is a doorkeeper for the House of God, a job which has passed from generation to generation in the same family (Bani Shaiba) for hundreds of years, current doorkeeper who has keys of the House of God is <strong><a href="https://twitter.com/HaramainInfo/status/1805325060758290579" data-type="link" data-id="https://twitter.com/HaramainInfo/status/1805325060758290579" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Abdul Wahab bin Zian Al-Abidin Al-Shaibi</a></strong></li>
</ol>



<h1 class="wp-block-heading">Conclusion</h1>



<p>Now which random valley of Baka near Jerusalem, or metaphoric valley of weeping possesses those 7 points as clearly as the Islamic Bakkah does?</p>



<ol class="wp-block-list">
<li>It relates to the House of God</li>



<li>It relates to pilgramage</li>



<li>It possesses a famous spring thus is related to springs</li>



<li>It has famous historical phenomena of pooling in the autumn season</li>



<li>Animals like birds find refuge near this religious altar as its prohibited to harm them</li>



<li>Pilgrims must go from &#8220;strength to strength&#8221; i.e. to different sites to complete the Islamic pilgrimage</li>



<li>The House of God has a doorkeeper</li>
</ol>



<p>Christians and Jews have not applied inductive reasoning to determine what this &#8220;Valley of Baka&#8221; in the Bible is. These 7 poins unequivocally prove that the valley of Baca in the Bible is none other than the Islamic Valley of Bakkah.</p>



<p>Christians and Jews can interpret this metaphorically all they wish but the literal application to the Islamic Valley of Bakkah is obvious and clear. They cannot simply ignore that the valley of Baca in the Bible is the valley of Bakkah in the Quran.</p>
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